Chatham House’s Jamie Shea, having worked on security challenges at NATO for decades, weighs the precarious east vs. west balance in the war in Ukraine.
Ukraine war has been a ‘trigger’ for Sweden, Finland to seek NATO membership
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Invade other country in Putin blood 🩸💀
Chechen 💀 Syria 💀 Georgia 💀 now Ukraine next Finland and Sweden
So why does Finland or any other country need to join NATO? Look at how much aid and money Ukraine is getting without being a NATO member.
@@Valokaari But it WOULD be needed. Look at how much the US has already spent and how much Biden promises to spend more. NATO always waits for the US to foot the majority of the bill. And Ukraine isn’t even IN NATO.
They, should I thought NATO was unnecessary until Russia decided to invade Ukraine. I now think Russia is the biggest threat to world peace. I kinda want them wiped out of the world I hate Russia after that shit.
Because money will never beat the hundreds of thousands of NATO soldiers…
Because if Ukraine was an actual member Russia would have never dared to attack in the first place. Finland has a large army with modern equipment but in light of what has happened in Ukraine they are seeking an even more effective deterrent against Russia.
Because having a deterrent that prevents a war from happening is better than needing extra funds to wage a war that you didn’t want in the first place.
Expanding NATO is one of the main *causes* of the war in Ukraine… idiots run the world and they’re playing with nuclear war.
it looks like Russian leadership has caused more NATO expansion problems for themselves by invading Ukraine. A case of shooting yourself in the foot.
Deciding and being demanded to decide are two entirely different matters. He should get his facts strait.
Over 50% of Swedes and Finns disagree with you.
@@lashlarue7924 The Finnish neutrality was pretty much a kind of cover for Cold War era oppression and meddling of soviet demands on Finnish politics and for example the printed word from school books to news and even the TV. There was some good negotiations sure. But at the same time the country was not able to publish all books in Finland, it was not possible to criticize Soviet Union or report fully truthfully when it failed or did something bad. And many politicians had to have KGB friends to take lunch with to make in their career. And Finland was not able to join all west European organisations it would have wanted to. We may have even considered Nato before. But that would not have been allowed by Soviet Russia. Back then the messaging was borderline propagandist in kind making Russia seem like ‘great friend’ while implying the opposite about west. And that included indeed ‘friendship’ where – if our own decisions made did not please Moscow – they would frankly extort our decision makers – ‘do it this way – OR ELSE’ -style. It was not as bad as in the Eastern Block countries where peoples opposing of the Soviet influence lead to tanks arriving in their cities to put people in place. But there was rather scary moments of Note Crisis. And the reason why there isn’t as much material about Finlandisation and it’s true implications as well as set Note Crisis or the rest of it is simple – those matters haven’t yet been really fully discussed. And this is what I meant with my comment. It took us some time after Soviet Union fell to get out from that short of a bit strange world view imposed on us during that time. Even now the Russian intelligence service has been noted to push with their bots talking points about Neutrality and peace (one of our peace organisations was established by KGB to subdue the people with this ideology). Once that time was over, while some people did also think there would be business opportunities in Russia as Soviet Russia was gone – it did not change fast due these hopes to see Russia turn for the better too. So no – I am not wrong. And I have no idea what short of silly number your 50% is and in regards of what? It can not be about support for Nato which has now turned to over 68% – I even seen numbers notably above 70%. Shurgs. It still is bit sad that people will speak of that era somehow admiring our what ever ‘proud history of neutrality…’ – yet at the same time not quite knowing what they really are saying then. That time is not some as greatly positive era for Finland as people tend to think. For us it was extortion too. Insult on our sovereignty for sure.
@@lyrigageforge3259 I agree with you 100%. I believe I misunderstood your original comment; I had believed you were a Kremlin propaganda bot attempting to argue that Finland was being “demanded to decide” on NATO membership — against its will (which is not true, of course!).
Thank you for your very succinct and well-crafted comment. I was not completely aware of the degree to which Moscow had coerced Finland during the Cold War, and I had not even heard of the Note Crisis! I will endeavor to study this in great detail.
I think your observations have very real implications for the present Ukraine war. Those who call for “Finlandization” in Ukraine are likely ignorant of the actual ramifications of this term, as you have said.
Thank you again and good luck to you in Finland. I hope you are able to join NATO quickly so that you can preserve your sovereignty. Finland’s accession to NATO would be a major strategic blow to Moscow, and not one that they would take lightly, given the extremely long border between your respective countries. Russian threats to deploy nuclear weapons to Kaliningrad ring hollow, as they already have more than enough nuclear capability to annihilate everything (hypersonic missiles in Kaliningrad would make little difference in the status quo).
Best regards from USA.
@@lashlarue7924 Lol, at the rate I been reporting those and pointing out empty arguments with facts – hardly. 🙂 NP
@@lyrigageforge3259 They literally believe their own post-modernist “truths”… Propaganda works, unfortunately. It’s just like a religion.
Joining will make Russia more desperate and be more aggressive. Sweden and Finland will be indirectly responsible if it does happen. Why now?
Because a mad dictator decided to attack a sovereign country and he’s threatened Finland and Sweden. Keep up! Nobody cares what Putin wants anymore, he’s lost that edge and his threats only convince other countries to ignore him and side with the West.
Someone have to stop the cowardly nuke threat from Russia. Only imbeciles use the nuke card. People can say all they want about the USA, it’s fair to say we’ve learned the hard way from ww2. Therefore nuke should never be an option. Its like saying, if I can’t win , no one can.
I didn’t know they were threatened. That makes it different
@@WALDENSOFTWARE well now you know hahhaah
@@theseekerndestroyer Do you know when he issued that statement?
Welcome to Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, DRC, Somalia, Yemen, Palestine, West Irian, Haiti, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia and now Ukraine!!!! US/NATO at work!
Welcome to Belarus, Chechnya, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Cuba, Venezuela, Congo, Syria, Ukraine. Russia at its finest.
China has invaded Vietnam more than once
Han conquest of Nanyue (111 BC)
Trung sisters’ rebellion (40-43 AD)
Lady Triệu Rebellion (248)
Lý Nam Đế Rebellion (543)
Sui–Former Lý War (602)
Mai Thúc Loan Rebellion (713–723)
Phùng Hưng Rebellion (791)
Tĩnh Hải-Southern Han War (930)
Dương Đình Nghệ Rebellion (931)
2nd Tĩnh Hải-Southern Han War (938)
Former Lê-Song War (981)
Lý–Song War (1075–1077)
Mongol invasions of Đại Việt (1257–1288)
Ming invasion of Đại Ngu (1406–07)
Later Trần revolt (1407–1413)
Lam Sơn uprising (1418–1427)
Naval battle in the Gulf of Tonkin between Yang Yandi and the Lê dynasty (Dương Ngạn Địch) (1682)
Qing invasion of Đại Việt (1789)
Battle of the Paracel Islands (1974)
Sino-Vietnamese War (1979)
Sino-Vietnamese conflicts (1979–1991) (including Johnson South Reef Skirmish (1988))
Sweden supported United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 on 17 March 2011 in response to the First Libyan Civil War. The Security Council resolution was proposed by France, Lebanon, and the United Kingdom.
>Iraq
*Iraq invaded Kuwait.* Iraq STARTED the bloody war in Kuwait.
Iraq’s top oil exports countries from Jan to Jun 2020
1st, China! 29 million tonnes <---- LOL 2nd, India, 23 million tonnes 3rd, EU, 8 million tonnes 4th, South Korea, 6 million tonnes 5th, Turkey, 4 million tonnes with an upwards trend 5th, USA, 4 million tonnes with a downwards trend Report: Saudi Arabia Presses U.S. on Overthrowing Saddam Hussein Date: January 19, 1992 From AP NEWS NEW YORK (AP) _ Saudi Arabia is pressuring the Bush administration to secretly arm and give intelligence to Iraqi opposition forces so they can work to overthrow Saddam Hussein, a newspaper reported Sunday. The Saudis want the United States to give arms and intelligence to Kurdish rebels in north Iraq, Shiite Muslim fighters in the south and Sunni Muslim opposition forces in central Iraq, the Times said, quoting U.S. and allied officials it didn’t name.
Chile example,
USSR has supported its Cuban proxy that in turn supported Marxist Salvador Allende. You’re a hypocrite.
Marxist Salvador Allende clashed with the right-wing parties that controlled Congress and with the judiciary. On 11 September 1973, the military moved to oust Allende in a coup d’état.
Marxist Salvador Allende’s presidential branch effectively declared war on the judiciary and right-wing majority governed Congress branches.
During the 1970 Chilean presidential election, both the United States and the Soviet Union poured money into this election through their intelligence agencies and other sources.
💰KGB money was more precisely targeted. Allende made a personal request for Soviet money through his personal contact, KGB officer Svyatoslav Kuznetsov, who urgently came to Chile from Mexico City to help Allende. The original allocation of money for these elections through the KGB was $400,000, and an additional personal subsidy of $50,000 directly to Allende.[8] It is believed that help from KGB was a decisive factor, because Allende won by a narrow margin of 39,000 votes of a total of the 3 million cast. After the elections, the KGB director Yuri Andropov obtained permission for additional money and other resources from the Central Committee of the CPSU to ensure Allende victory in Congress. In his request on 24 October, he stated that KGB “will carry out measures designed to promote the consolidation of Allende’s victory and his election to the post of President of the country”.[8]
You’re a hypocrite.
Where is Gonzalo Lira??
Nobody gives 2 shits.
Russian, instead of having a 1500 mile front of attack is now concentrating its forces on a 500 mile front. This is called an improvement. The whole southern front was supplied by ships, but that is now off the table, so the invasion is based on one bridge between Crimea and Russia. And it still stands. Wonder what the payoff was? No attacking the parliament in Kyiv? No competent military would let that stand.
MAIN REASONS A G A I N S T joining NATO : 1) Joining NATO means to serve as a target for Russia´s or China´s strategic nuclear missilles all the time in future, certainly not just untill Ukraine war would end. 2) USA may back off in case of nuclear war in Europe to save hundreds of their cities- than NATO would loose nuclear war in Europe. 3) Even if USA would not back off, they appreciate every new NATO land(Finland) to absorb some of Russia´s nukes, which otherwice would surely explode above USA´cities… 4) Finland managed alone in past, could manage in future. It is still better option than to be incenereted instead of some USA´s cities…USA like to be nuclear armed nation, on the other hand they can not defend themself against Russia´s nuclear forces, let alone to defend Europe against it! Finland would better to rely on Finish defensive means and not to mess with counting on USA and kind of stand up against nuclear superpowers like Russia and China to “fight” them one day… ( To “fight” them means- to absorb some of nukes which otherwise would explode above USA´cities very harmlessly for Finland…. 5) Mr. Stubb knows little about wars unfortunately. Joining NATO is the way how to assure the tottal destructin to Finland during a nuclear war between USA and Russia, or even only between European NATO members and Russia… 6) If anybody thinks that USA is a morally “OK” NATO leader- kind of a “good guy” , than please try to google: “USA drone strikes” . You will find crimes committed by USA on civilians in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen an other third world countries… 7) In case of nuclear war the destruction would be gruesome, but also very limited geographically to states involved. Joining NATO is signing completely unnecesarry death sentence, since it is signing for being targeted by SATTAN II and more of similar machines instead of some USA´s big cities.
Bruh literally everything you said for being against NATO involves the USA, relax man, NATO has 30 countries and could have 32 soon, there is more to NATO than just the fucking USA.
Thats a pretty bad argument for anyone who has a clue.
I can’t believe I wasted my time reading trough that crap.
@@inso80 Yes, it was 30 seconds of my life I cannot recover!
They should join nato because they know it would only take nato 1 weeks to kick Russia’s ass.
👍😊
Russia won’t survive the mounting war costs on top of the permanent sanctions. Russia is a sinking ship (no pun intended).
When world tension is at 60% and join faction tension limit for your country is at 40% world tension.
Well NATO is a good option as long as there isn’t a unified EU army.
I think that’s going to happen now Putin is threatening everyone.
Would it now be the moment when the whole set of countries that removed Russia from the Security Council should start transferring its troops to Ukraine or to countries that share a border with Russia. The transfer of troops would be a much cheaper operation than the dreaded World War III visit. The Russians are, of course, informed that this is an exercise and is not intended to attack any state and is not a special operation of the armed forces. Troops are always easier to move back than to repair traces of destruction. If the troops will leave immediately, the lives of thousands of innocent people would be spared.
The end for us here in Sweden! 😢
So only 36% of people polled support joining NATO. thats about where Biden’s approval rating sits
Those are old numbers. Now it is at 61%+ and Sweden is also 50%+ in favor for NATO membership.
They don’t have to join NATO to enjoy the benefits of protection against Russia. The Ukraine enjoy all benefits without being a member if NATO, while NATO tax paying citizens pay all the expenses of weapons and military assistance.
Good point! I don’t think that now the Russian military has been humiliated in Ukraine and it’s clear do not stand a chance against anyone with a medium sized military that either Finland or Sweden needs to join. I read last week that according to the world military index, Russia has slipped to 9th from 3rd only two months ago.
Sweden and Finland don’t have Ukraine’s Budapest Memorandum. Sweden and Finland have EU Article 42.7 mutual defense pact.
On Feb. 17, 2022, Ukraine, UK, and Poland announce a security pact.
In which parallel universe is Ukraine enjoying all of the benefits of NATO membership? If Russia had tried this against a NATO country like Poland the Russian airforce would’ve disappeared overnight. The amount of assistance Ukraine is getting is tiny and reactive compared to the overwhelming & proactive response a NATO member would’ve received.
@@vigilante8374 without a doubt. Even Putin knows that attacking a NATO country is suicidal for Russia. He said so around three years ago even though now he knows how bad his military is.
Why is it necessary for Finland and Sweden (or any other country) to join NATO for protection? Ukraine enjoys all protection and benefits anyway. Should a country just play their politics right? Like Zelenskyy did? 🤔
Ukraine isn’t getting all benefits. They are getting plenty of supplies yea but NATO won’t send any troops in to help. They also have hesitated on what equipment to send. If a Nato country was attacked (which being Nato serves as a deterrent against attacking) Then there would most likely be a quicker and more decisive response.
Cause they know russia is afraid of nato, so putain cowardly use the nuke card to intimidate its neighbors. Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
@@agent481989 Ukraine has zero NATO nuclear, airforce, army, and navy combat units.
NATO’s support for Ukraine is similar to US CIA’s support (e.g. man-portable missiles) for Afghan Mujahadeen and US support (e.g. trade sanctions, basic arms) for China against Imperial Japan.
BIG difference between getting some supplies and moral support and having full-blown Article V treaty obligations❗️
Finland and norway must action ryt now before its to late …..
Do not speak nonsense, please.
Norway is already in NATO
Good NATO for them. 🇬🇧🇺🇲,,,
Sweden and Finland Without NATO the best. 👍🇸🇪🇫🇮
Like Sweden ww2 🕊🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
To Anthony M: Is it “shame” to write the truth in USA ? Excuse me, but I live in
eastern European NATO nation, and my last point(which you consider a
shame) is a matter of fact, very sad matter of fact! The truth can
never be a shame!!!! And since my last point is pure truth, than it is
not a thretening via the SATAN 2, in fact, it is only pointing at the
biggest disadvantage for nation where I live, or for Finland once they would become a NATO member! Take off
you USA propaganda glasses and try to put on the glasses of eastern Europe´s citizens!!
Don’t join NATO and you won’t get invaded. The US is pulling out of NATO.
Someone needs to sue nato for the allowance of immunity for the permanent 5.
It’s extortion to demand for non-nato countries to say, “join or we will allow one of our veto members to wipe you off this earth.” That’s what mobs do.
I CALL ON ALL THE NUCLEAR NATION OF THE WORLD TO DEMAND THAT PUTIN STOP IMMEDIATELY OR FACE TOTAL NUCLEAR STRIKES ON RUSSIA – TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT UNLESS PUTIN STOPS, RESIGNED AND THE DUMA AND KRELIN STOP ALL HOSTILITIES, THAT RUSSIA WILL BE TURNED INTO FLAMES AND ASHES. PUTIN – STOP NOW OR FACE DESTRUCTION!
Instead of going for peace, these countries want to increase the tensions with regards to Russia. It’s as if, during the US Cuban Missile crisis, Mexico also decided to put Soviet nukes. Would that have helped ease the tensions?
I can not understand, where the common sense got lost in most people’s minds.
@@nadimares7153 Right? Diplomacy is always the best answer.
Easy for you to say when you don’t live next to Russia 🙂
@@riccardo9383 Russia has made it quite clear they are not interested in diplomacy.
@@riccardo9383Putin doesn’t believe in diplomacy, thats literally the problem
send ofdesa patriot missles batteries.or. anti air craft weapons
ukr,,, war as a trigger?!
Bu,,,llshit!
why not a combined european army led by france/germany to protect from non european threats. have russia and ukraine too in this union and europe will prosper. a unified europe is the responsibility of france/germany. russia will provide cheap gas and petrol needed to improve europen economies and china/india will supply cheap quality goods. what more does europe want. this way europe will enjoy peace into the next century. united we stand and divided we fall. in the future europe may not need an army AT ALL. there is a army to protect europe. this army is smashing russia at the moment. its not ukraine or nato weapons which are causing the destruction. its the unseen army creating havoc. would like all feedback. by the way i have proof of this army but im not in favour of this unseen army.
We welcome anyone we dont like a murder of instant people who have done nothing to no one long live Ukraine and i hope that they win this war
Sweden best not remain neutral as there’s no such thing as we saw from ww2 they allowed German troops to march straight through Sweden and they therefor took Norway so if Sweden bottles it and isn’t dependable Finland may well not join either.
Finland will more likely to join NATO than Sweden. Swedes might not even want to join if we don’t send the application first.
Perhaps the world has moved on somewhat since 1940?
What we face today with “Adolf Putin”, is something different you know!!!
🙄
Ukraine didnt choose the option of Finlandization but now Finland wants to choose the option of Ukrainization.
The IMF gave them no choice.
You do know that there’s a large amount of Nazis in Ukraine right.